Setting up Flow bindings
Tuesday, 12. 1. 2009 – Category: Running, Snowboarding
Republishing this post as it’s been attracting comments ever since we originally posted in November 2006
Nothing seems to cause more dispute amongst snowboarders than the dispute over Flow bindings.
Added comfort vs. lack of control
No strap pain vs. extra weight
Cool as you like vs. WTF is that?
Choose from a range of Flow’s available below. All links go to external sites.
“The Five”
Flow Flite 5 featuring the all new Flite Series baseplate gives the mid-budget rider all the power of a lean, mean, shredding machine.
Pro FSI
highly responsive pipe, park and freestyle binding that allows for the greatest range of motion
M9 - white
Freestyle machine featuring an all-new lightweight M Series baseplate, ventilated hiback, and I-Flex Powerstrap, we’re calling this binding a stroke of genius.
M11
This hiback’s optimal flex targets key pressure zones for riders who demand precise responsiveness with just the right amount of rebound out of heelside turns
I’m currently using straps, but have used Flow’s a fair few times and am pretty sure the route of the problem many people have is that they didn’t have them set up properly. There’s a good thread going at AdTrip, where DeathonaStick is asking for advice on how to setup Flow bindings properly. tom_g gives a detailed response:
The strap thing (whatever the hell its called) needs to be as far forward as you can get it, so that the hiback comes down without catching on the heel of your boot (which it will quite happily tear off if you force it too often)
put the ladders on the forward-most settings, then put the strap on, and push each ratchet down a little bit. Then put your boot under the strap, close the hiback, and push the strap down further, as far as it’ll go.
You can now either take the boot out and click them all down one more, if you want them tight, or leave them as they are if you like them a bit loose (i leave them as they are, generally)
theres a bit of a knack to getting into flows quickly, it takes maybe a day or so of riding to get it down pat. This (i reckon) is the main reason that people who try their mate’s flow for a couple of runs don’t rate them highly, the first time you use them you’ll get your boot stuck in your binding and it’ll piss you right off You need to give them a chance…
Put your front foot under the strap, then lean on your toe edge (back foot in front of you) and bang down onto the toe edge to get your front foot in firmly. pull the front binding shut.
Then reach down, hold the back hiback down, put your back foot under the strap. stand upright, put yourself on the toe edge and and ram your back foot in as far as it’ll go, then pull up the hiback.
you can do all this on the flat section after a chairlift without stopping - again, it’ll take a day or so for the movements to bed themselves into your subconscious, but once its there you’ll do it as easily as tieing shoelaces.
Getting your back foot out is the reverse. Whilst you’re stopping, get on a toe edge and ram your back foot as far in as it’ll go, then reach down and undo the highback. If it gets caught, stand up again and ram your foot further - don’t try to force it. If you really, really get stuck. stand up, swear a bit, pull the whole strap off, and set them up again.
One thing to remember, if you’re trying this in your lounge, both your boot and and binding will be dry, so it’ll be a bit harder to get them in. On a real slope they’ll be wet, and they’ll slide in easier. Give it a go in the back garden with your binding nice and wet, and you’ll see its much easier.
If you’ve got bad hips like me, flows will save you a lot of pain. You still have to bend down, but its only the equivalent to the movement of scratching your ankle with one hand. Straps make you bend down properly, with both hands, and thats the bit that grinds away on my bollocksed up hip cartiledge.
One more point: once you’re in, you’ll find that your heel will lift a 1cm or so. Don’t worry about this, as soon as you start riding your foot will shift back in the binding (remember you jammed it forwards as far as you could) and the heel lift will go.
and one final, final point - you’ll take loads of shit for riding flows, people will continually ask you whether you can’t do up straps, and they’ll get uber-defensive if you have a go at straps. theres nothing you can do or say that will get through these people’s heads, if you have to ride with them you’ll have to suck it up
Full thread no longer live at AdTrip.
http://adrenalintrip.extreme.com/forum/viewtopic/1/179679?siteid=3&23
Tags: Flow, Snowboard bindings
40 Responses to “Setting up Flow bindings”
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November 7th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
[...] “I hate Flow bindings” - what about those that love Flow bindings? “how to get fit for snowboarding” - I should probably have a read of that. Only 3 and a bit weeks til Cervinia. “kickers horse” - eh? “ski socks vs snowboard socks” - one that’s bitten me in the arse before. Get proper snowboard socks! “Transformer snowboards” - sounds cool. Related posts: [...]
November 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
I have a question…I have heard that people sometimes have difficulty getting back into the binding while riding backcountry in deep pow. True?
November 29th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Yes, I’ve definitely had issues with Flow bindings in deep powder.
November 29th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
And this is just because your foot enters through the back and needs to be kicked in…Correct?
November 29th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Because of this difficulty would this deter you in recommending Flow bindings?
November 29th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
>>because your foot enters through the back?
Yes, mainly that. It can be difficult pulling the back ratchet down to get your boot out when you’re buried in snow!
But I wouldn’t let that put you off, unless you’re planning on spending loads of time in the backcountry. I’m not using Flow’s at the moment, but would consider them again at some point. If you can try a set, I’d recommend that.
They can be super comfortable, with no strap pain when set up properly, but they also can weigh a ton, unless you go for top of the range.
January 2nd, 2008 at 4:29 pm
In the uk, we don’t get much snow so we have to go to the in-door venues where you pay by the hour, with the flow binding you get a lot more goes down the slope in your hour, while other guys with regular bindings are sat on their ass clicking away you are half way down already, too many people moan about pointless stuff, just enjoy your selves
January 2nd, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Well said Bazx6r. Something tells me the debate will rage on however.
And watch out for snow tomorrow! Though doubt there will be enough to go sliding on.
January 7th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Dude, we went up to Yad Moss on saturday, 2 hour drive to get there but it was worth it, the lift wasn’t running but we wont let a little thing like the spoil the fun and i had to carry my heavy bindings all the way up the hill ha ha, not many people there but all snow boarders very cool
January 7th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Sounds cool. Easy to forget that there are ski hills in England! You didn’t happen to take any photos? Would be cool to post up a mini-trip report here.
January 8th, 2008 at 9:17 am
yes mate loads, how do i get them to you?
January 8th, 2008 at 9:21 am
check your email, cheers
February 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
I’m an original ’subtle’ orange Flow bindings user from WAY back in the day (2001 I think!) I was persuaded against the matching ‘Banana Boots’ and went for just the bindings in the end ;) Loved them but always got heel lift (suspect my massive Vans Boots had something to do with it!) Definitely nice and easy, first off at the top of the slope every time! (I needed a head start) Indeed tricky in backcountry powder but I had more enthusiasm than skill, so shouldn’t have probably been there in the first place;)
Anyway, had to take some time off boarding with a totally spazzed tendon, so when I finally dragged my board bag down off the top of the wardrobe to dust off my completely rusty skills in Italy I didn’t realise til I got there that one of the toe straps had gone walkabout! (You try to explain to nice Italian people in the middle of nowhere what a Flow binding is!) Had to hire some good old fashioned step ins (didn’t like it - my ankle’s not up to it anymore!)
Anyway - need to get hold of new strap - any Flow users know best place to get some in the UK? (maybe a complete spare set is a good idea!) Any advice appreciated.
February 13th, 2008 at 10:50 am
I have been riding flows for 5 years and wouldn’t go back. On the plus side they are more comfortable and far easier to get into. If you are riding mostly groomers and snatching the in resort off piste action they’ll ensure you’re first away from the lift, gondola etc. Once you have the knack you can snap your back foot in when you are already moving quite easily and be away down the hill whilst your mates are still strapping in.
On the down side they are a bummer to get out of if you fall off in deep powder, difficult to set up and easy to overtighten. I have snapped the retaining pin on the high back twice and personally I don’t think these are beefy enough on the cheaper models. However both times I managed to get a free in resort repair and have had no problems with them since.
I think the vast majority of riders would find that the plusses outweigh the drawbacks. If you really are a backcountry hero then maybe they aren’t for you.
February 13th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Hey Jimmymck
I’m just back from a trip with a friend who has been using Flow’s for the last 3 years and this trip - through gritted teeth - stated he’ll be going back to straps when these Flow’s give out on him. I think it was teh combination of the powder issues and not being able to get them set up properly for the first 4 days or so that got to him.
Thanks for the comment by the way.
February 25th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
I’ve been using these pair of flow amp9i for a year now, & over all enjoy. The one major headache I have encountered is the top left retaining clip on my back foot will sometimes get stuck in a “forward” position, blowing that high back open. This happens if I am careless checking it off the lift binding in (it seems ice gets in) or if I land off a big jump, jarring it open. This is massively frustrating in the park. I even had both bindings do this once @ the same time last month @ whistler, ejecting me from the board after landing a jump! I would appreciate any thoughts/advice with this, because if I could fix this, I would completely endorse them.
March 31st, 2008 at 4:00 am
Been riding 10 years or so on Burton Freeride bindings and went for some Flow Amp5 07′ this year on a super cheap eBay deal. Bought a pair for my wife too. We both really liked the bindings-ease of in and out and overall comfort was great-founds them responsive-had some heel lift-however I kinda’ like a bit of movement in my bindings anyway. Iwould really like it if they we lighter-but I didn’t want to ante up the dollars for the lighter high end version. Overall very happy with the bidnings-not sure how durable they’re gonna’ be-all plastic ratchets etc. I’d recommend them-particularly for the comfort factor. My wife LOVED not having to sit down off a lift-so she’s hooked on them. One hassle-and it’s so minor-to be irrelevant-is that they are a little harder to stack in the car etc as the bindings don’t fold flat like conventional-unless you want to undo one side of the boot strap/pocket thing-meaning you have to re-set it-as I said, not a big deal.
Matt
November 27th, 2008 at 1:32 am
I dislike flow’s…not saying they are terrible…they just dont work for me…to get them to where i can slide my foot in, my heels are going up and down. When i get them so my heels are secure…i can’t get in/out. I put them back on the shelf and walked out with some nice burton cartel’s.
December 17th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
I have used mine for two years and love them.
As for sensitivity, BS, I had tech 9’s toe strap and these are just as good. Less bulky even
January 4th, 2009 at 2:47 am
I have the NXT AT’s on my first snowboard i got last year, I’ve been skiing for 13years and was bored out of my mind and made the switch anyways I had them set-up perfectly last year. I’d get to the top slid my foot in and down the hill I went which is great for keeping up with my 5yo on ski’s. this year I’ve had issues getting them setup right which is frustrating. on a side note I just bought my wife some K2 cinch bindings they have what looks to be a better exit system but she hasn’t used them yet, they don’t offer the back plate adjustment that the flows do, and they’re all plastic. I can only say that I like them, and the only advise I can give with confidence is make sure you get a boot that’s narrow to make it easy to slide it in.
February 10th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
Has anyone got a pair of 2009 bindings yet,
I have been in agony for 5 seasons and just lived with it, Buying some new boots but womdering if I should purchase a set of flows to ease my ride ad general comfort.
Looking at the flow 5’s mod stiffness but lighter, would be nice to have someone elses oppinion.
Rob
February 11th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
I tried Flows in 2001 and again in 2008 with NXT FX’s. They worked OK but certainly not as well as my friends said. I eventually realized that I like my straps a lot tighter than most people and I just couldn’t get the Flows tight enough without struggling to get them closed and creating pressure points. Same as what Peter said 4 posts up, sort of.
Great for some, but not for everybody. I really wanted to like these - they are really convenient.
February 17th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
I have a set of Flow “The Five” and a set of Ride EX bindings. I like the comfort of the Flow bindings but when there is no flat spot at the top or a bench, I get on my knees to put them on. Some resorts let us strap on the back foot before we leave the lift which really makes it nice. I too had a problem with the back of my boot separating, but I did not have the front strap all the way forward thus not allowing my boot to get all the way forward. Shoe Goo’d my boots back together with a clamp and all is well.
March 29th, 2009 at 2:28 am
Just finished my second day with Flow Five bindings I got at the Seattle REI bargain basement. I sure like the feel after I’m buckled in better that the two-strap system. I haven’t had to get them off in the deep stuff, but I bet it’s bad. It’s also difficult to sit on a slope and put them on- the lever and the heelback both get in your way. If you’re on a level spot, it’s no problem. I’ve found (so far anyway) that I can’t just jam my boot in and pull the lever if the binding is tight. So I loosen one of the anlke straps when I step out- then at the top I have a looser fit- I put my boot in, tighten the strap and pop the lever. Even messing with the strap it’s faster and I don’t have to sit on the snow. Read that somebody gets to their knees to put them on when there’s a slope- I’ll try that next time.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:29 am
If you are not able to work out how to use the simplest and best binding in the world you are a dum arse & deserve to use straps. You can easily set them on the run in any condition.
October 7th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Hey, I have a pair of Flow POR Fsi and besides enjoying the grip, and easy in/out, I have been suffering from them - MY FEET FALL ASLEEP. All the blood is cut off when i tighten them. I cant seem to find the balance of too tight (no blood) and too loose (no control).
HELP!!!! Anyone
October 7th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
>>I cant seem to find the balance of too tight (no blood) and too loose (no control).
There in lies the crux of the issue with Flow’s.
Joel, have a good read through the advice in the main post in italics. It sounds like good advice to me.
2 years, 5 months, and 26 comments on this post later, and I’m certainly no more convinced to try them again.
October 7th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Thanks Adam,
That I know. I was hoping for some insight on how to tweak it so it might work for me. It looks like Burton Mission might be the answer.
Give us the easty life of “Off the lift, snap-n-go”
October 26th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Just bought my ยด09 Flow NXT AT binding. Waiting to get to the slopes. Had to make my own attachment for them to get them work with Burton ICS board. First feelings are good and I hope that I like them in action.
November 4th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
I’ve been rocking the K2 Clickers since I bought them new. I’m tired of taking crap from kids who are younger than my boots are, asking me if my bindings are broken.
Not stopping when I get off the lift while my friends all sit down to make love to their straps has become the standard. I’m not willing to give it up. The only person who keeps up with me rides K2 Cinches.
But everyone else I ask says to get Flows instead of K2’s. Reading all of this is the first I am hearing about a weight difference or them popping open in the park…
Can anyone comment on the up/down-sides of Flows vs. K2 Cinches?
November 5th, 2009 at 1:37 am
Ive been using flows since I got bored of doing up the straps while learing on the dry slopes. I thought, quite rightly, that the ease of the flow would be a great benefit.
I’m on my 2nd pair of now, I had problems with the heel catching with the first pair but it subsequently materialises that I was wrongly sold a set too small for the boot size (!!) I tried a friends bindings which were a size larger and hey presto! No more heel catching, no more overtightness!
I found that tweaking the forward lean a bit and resetting the boot strap after reduced any (slight) heel lift. I guess the thing to remember is to make sure you get the most appropriate/suitable size and it’s worth trying two sizes if you feel there may be issues.
As far as having difficulty getting into them on a slope, simple. Flip over onto your toe edge and get into them like a set of blocks! no fuss.. dead quick!
I personally wouldn’t go back to straps…. but again it works for some and not for others.
Winter’s coming!! :)
January 4th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
been using flows for at least 10 years now, and am completely sold on them. my current set have done 8 years service ! some minor bits are now missing and they are a bit hammered, so i’ll be upgrading to NXT FX’s.
sure, there’s some initial faffing to get them set up to suit your riding style, but once that’s done you’re sooo far ahead of the guys cranking in after the lifts, maybe having to get gloves off in that minus 27 degrees ridge wind and squall…
years ago, i popped out of one side whilst riding ( not fun at speed ) but fixed this by switching to a bulkier boot - i was using burtons and went for thirty two’s - i believe thirty two’s and flows to be a good marriage.
done plenty of backcountry days in deep pow with the flows; the trick is to pack down a flat section with your board so you can perch upright on it and click back in, or try kneeling and clicking in that way. some times you just have to try and move away to a better position on foot - never found this to cause real concern though.
January 10th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
Thanks for republishing this thread - useful. Been using straps for ages and board with those that use straps, flows, and some skiiers as well.
This year I’ve decided to use Flows since that way I don’t get left behind if peeps want a quick getaway from the lift (catching em up can be hard work) - and I’m hoping that the comfort factor helps for the longer days. Totally see the advantages straps can give - but overall Flows look like a winner. I might think differently in a month’s time :-)
January 22nd, 2010 at 2:11 am
Flow bindings can be good for beginners as strapping in is sometimes quicker with Flows. However, for stronger riders they might not be as responsive and supportive as traditional strap bindings. There are many bindings on the market. Maybe try a few different ones first to see how they feel. Perhaps demo some different models.
February 15th, 2010 at 6:12 am
Ive used flow bindings for three whole seasons now and I will never go back, one thing no one has mentioned is the fact that flow makes boots as well. Their boots are generally lower profile (not so bulky)than other boots.Regardless if you can find the right boot to fit your size of flow bindings and also have them adjusted properly in my opinion they are the most comfortable bindings you can get.
March 2nd, 2010 at 10:29 pm
I’ve used Flow for 5 seasons now. I don’t remember which model but they are all grey with the large boot covering and large lock-in high back. I ride on an all mountain Atlantis board and use old Airwalk Sonar boots (probably going to buy new ones this week)
First thing I did when I got the Flows was to inspect them. See how they work, where the attachment points are etc. The one major problem I found with the design, at that time, was the attachment point of the lock-in to the high back. It was attached by a screw and that screw would not secure very well. So I could definitely see the lock coming off on a hard fall and popping off the board. There is a fix. I bought 2 “star washers” and put it in between the head of the screw and the lock-in. I’ve never had a problem of them releasing on their own or even the screw coming lose.
Cons:
1: Major thing, what everyone says, set up, set up, set up. Go over the instructions and learn what each adjustable piece does. These are by far more versatile than straps or clickers. This is the biggest problem, getting the adjustment right! if it is not right, you will hate them. Read the instructions and after they are attached to your board put your boot on, get in the bindings and snap the sleeve on, get it as tight as possible. Now adjust the angle of the high-back. Lock it in. If its not tight then take your boot out and adjust the sleeve lower and lock it in again. Repeat until comfortable, good news in there will be very minor changes on the mountain.
2: There is a screw which adjusts the angle of the high-back when its locked in. On my bindings this can adjust by itself, they should have put some sort of “lock” on this screw. Not a big problem because this is easily adjust on the mountain and I have only had to do it like 5 time, however you could also consider this a minor adjustment for the current conditions.
3: When I am pushing along, I have a tenancy to step on my bindings, this can accidentally push down the sleeve, losing the adjustment for that part. This has probably been fixed in the newest model, at least from what I can see. This is my biggest problem and its half my fault because I ride goofy but leave my back foot in when I push on the flats and my back foot is almost angled between 0 and 15, closer to 0. Don’t ask. Its comfortable for me.
4: Slight problem with the heel catching on the high-back as I lock it in (probably due to minor adjustment issue). Really only caused minor wear on a useless rubber accent on the boot. I will bring in my old boots when I go to purchase new ones. I want to get the same overall size.
5: I had to make adjustments after I got my board tuned. They had to take the bindings off to put the board on the machine, because the high backs don’t go down unless you move the sleeve.
5: Waiting for friends to strap in!
Pros: self evident!
1: Fast, Fast, Fast. I can keep up with the skiers off the lift if I want to and strap in on the go.
2: Stability and control, people say they don’t have control. I have not found this. I’m using old Airwalk Sonar boots. If you don’t know these, they don’t have the internal lace which really gets the boot to your foot. The only thing that keeps these boot snug to your foot is the outside lace and Velcro strap. 8) (I have had these for 10 years now). When the adjustments are in the sweet spot, the control is better than when I used straps.
3: no pressure points to cause irritation. I had several pressure points with straps.
4: less parts to break, like straps. On my old K2 bindings, I had to replace the straps on each one 3 times. Both lower and upper straps broke. the ratchets broke from use. Part of the reason I got flows. I’ll probably eventually break the flows from stepping on them =)
Thoughts on Deep snow.
Yes, they are hard to get into in deep snow because of the rear entry but just angle your board to your toes and squad down a little and they come right on/off. Or you can do as someone others have said and get on your knees. Either way I haven’t had a problem with deep snow, the few times that I have had the pleasure of riding some.
Cinch vs Flow.
I have not tried the Cinch personally but I was talking to rider that used only Cinch and looked at Flow. He said that the Flow were much easier to get into. I looked at what he was talking about and I saw that the Cinch High-back did not go all the way down like on the Flow but instead it worked with the Top strap. The high back came down some to almost a 45 degree angle and the top strap moved up. You would then slide your boot in and when it locks the high back comes up and the top strap comes down. I can definitely see why it would be easier to get into Flows. You can put the High-back perpendicular to the board and the put your boat in and lock it up. One and done!
Would I buy Flow again?? I would look at them first before I looked at others. They have changed a lot since I bought mine and I would need to inspect the new design. The order of which i would buy bindings, by design: Flow, cinch, straps, clicker (hopefully I will never have to buy these)
cheers
March 4th, 2010 at 2:35 am
My bindings are Flow FL-55 large
March 4th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
I have a pair of M9 Flow Bindings that I used last year. I personally would not purchase again. Here are the reasons some of which has been mentioned before.
1.) Travel: If you are traveling with your board and you finally have them all adjusted you are going to have to undo it all to have them fit into a car or a travel bag since your not able to put the highback down.
2.) Tightness: I was snowboarding at Snowbird in UT and to get the binding tight I had to ratchet it down but then I couldnt get my foot out. If I didnt ratchet down then I have no control. So the whole benefit of easy in easy out is lost if I have to ratchet just like people with straps. Its only worse since the ratchets are so small vs. the traditional strap binding.
3.) Highback: to be able to kick my foot in the high back needs to be all the way down. Even on a flat service the ratchet on the back of the binding is going into the snow. If I am on an incline at the top of the mountain that I cant stand up I need to kick in knealing and facing the slope on my toe edge. Again I personally would rather be sitting than knealing when I have bad knees. And if you are stuck in the POW your screwed trying to reach for that highback and pull it all the way down…. you start feeling like a contortionist…. I am speaking first hand on that one.
4.) Weight: I am not doing crazy jumps so weight isnt a really big deal… but let me tell you they are a beast.
5.) Quality: Its all plastic…. I personally like an alluminum base and heal cup…
This season I have been riding on RIDE ALPHAs and let me tell you the moment I put them on my snowboarding ability went through the roof. So much better response….Flows were my first set of bindings after renting for a few years…. They were better than the rental stuff…. however, it was a bad decision to purchase them… and a waste of $
Stay safe on the slopes and wear a helmet!
-RJK
May 9th, 2010 at 5:46 am
the back of my flows will not stay down, they just pop back up and its hard to vet in and out of them on powder. what or how do i fix this
June 20th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
Ill admit, setting up flows is a bitch, but I do find them very very comfortable to wear, and a tip for you folks is once you have them set nice, I took mine home and painted a thin paint line on the straps where they clipped in so I know if for any reason they move or I have to shift them Iv got a base to go back to.
Taken me two days to get them sorted but now they spot on, if you buy some keep trying, it takes a while but once they tuned into your feet they absolutely great. IMO of course ;-)